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Traveller-digest     Thursday, December 2 1999     Volume 1999 : Number 1427<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.<BR>
All rights reserved.<BR>
<BR>
The following topics are covered in this digest:<BR>
<BR>
Re: Inevitability of people failing to trim long followups<BR>
RE: LEO's<BR>
RE: Deadfall Ordnance<BR>
Re: SEC: UNCLASSIFIED Government bad, anarchy good<BR>
Repulsar sounds.<BR>
Re: early christian writings and roman rumors<BR>
Skill<BR>
Re: Bifrost-class Solar Shuttle (GTL9)<BR>
Re: early christian writings and roman rumors<BR>
Re: early christian writings and roman rumors<BR>
Re: Different Technologies<BR>
Stopping the world...<BR>
Re: Different technologies<BR>
Re: SEC: UNCLASSIFIED Government bad, anarchy good<BR>
Re: Stopping the world...<BR>
re: Bribery Skill<BR>
RE: LEO's<BR>
more about "deadfall ordinance"<BR>
Re: Bribery Skill<BR>
Re: Dragon Magazine on CD<BR>
<BR>
----------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 2 Dec 1999 05:18:08 -0800 (PST)<BR>
From: Kyle Schuant <kyle3054@yahoo.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Inevitability of people failing to trim long followups<BR>
<BR>
> Trim your followups. Tim's post was justifiable, if<BR>
> slightly rantish<BR>
> and topic-drifted, but it didn't really need to be<BR>
> requoted in <BR>
> its entirety for your one line addition.<BR>
> <BR>
> It's especially annoying to those of us who read the<BR>
> digest version<BR>
> of the TML, where we have to scroll through all of<BR>
> that to read the<BR>
> next post.<BR>
> <BR>
> -Russell Bornschlegel<BR>
> <BR>
the length was the marxist's fault, not mine. Brevity<BR>
is the soul of wit.<BR>
<BR>
=====<BR>
KA Schuant<BR>
member: Chef's Guild International, Sporting Shooter's Assoc, Amnesty Int, Carlton Soccer Club<BR>
Melbourne<BR>
Australia<BR>
<BR>
"Duct tape is like the Force: it has a light side, a dark side, and it binds the universe together"<BR>
__________________________________________________<BR>
Do You Yahoo!?<BR>
Thousands of Stores.  Millions of Products.  All in one place.<BR>
Yahoo! Shopping: http://shopping.yahoo.com<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 2 Dec 1999 13:20:36 -0000 <BR>
From: "Trevor, Peter" <Peter.Trevor@rb.cwplc.com><BR>
Subject: RE: LEO's<BR>
<BR>
Phil Kitching wrote:<BR>
> I don't know if it changed when the government sold off the<BR>
> railways but the fact that the British Railways Transport<BR>
> Police had jurisdiction over railway property meant that<BR>
> members of other police forces couldn't arrest people on BR<BR>
> property.<BR>
<BR>
I haven't noticed  any  change  (but  I'm  not  always  the  most<BR>
observant).  I do know that the BR Revenue Protection  Squad  are<BR>
not police but *do* have arrest and 'statement taking' powers.<BR>
<BR>
Do any UK TMLers know if the Thames River Police is part  of  the<BR>
Met or independant?<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
Regards PLST<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 2 Dec 1999 13:26:41 -0000 <BR>
From: "Trevor, Peter" <Peter.Trevor@rb.cwplc.com><BR>
Subject: RE: Deadfall Ordnance<BR>
<BR>
Felix wrote:<BR>
> With the discussion of Dead-Fall Ordnance going on on the <BR>
> GT:Navy playtest group, I got to thinking about Babylon 5 and the <BR>
> weapons that the Shadows (or was it the Vorlons ...) used to kill <BR>
> planets.  They simply dropped large chunks of streamlined metal <BR>
> through the atmosphere and the concussion was enough to <BR>
> penetrate the crust and break the planet up from inside.<BR>
<BR>
The "Death Cloud" was a Shadow weapon and IIRC  it  was  *not*  a<BR>
simple dead-fall ordnance weapon.  The  missiles  penetrated  the<BR>
target planet's crust and drilled down "almost to the core" where<BR>
they exploded as multi-megaton nukes.<BR>
<BR>
Regards PLST<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 2 Dec 1999 05:33:33 -0800 (PST)<BR>
From: Kyle Schuant <kyle3054@yahoo.com><BR>
Subject: Re: SEC: UNCLASSIFIED Government bad, anarchy good<BR>
<BR>
- --- "Hughes, Michael"<BR>
<Michael.Hughes@cbr.defence.gov.au> wrote:<BR>
> <BR>
> Um, yeah, okay. I thought dat it was just a game,<BR>
> eh...<BR>
> =====<BR>
> KA Schuant<BR>
> <BR>
> A game? JUST A GAME!?!?!!?!?!<BR>
> <BR>
> <slap, slap> I'll see you at dawn sir. Your choice<BR>
> of weapons.<BR>
> <BR>
> Michael <BR>
> <BR>
No need for us to arise at dawn (your dawn or mine?<BR>
hehe), when I said, "just a game," I didn't mean to<BR>
diminish its obvious importance in our other wise<BR>
bleak and aimless lives, merely that perhaps an<BR>
in-depth psychosocio-economic-political analysis (a<BR>
dialectic of the extremely unproleteriat, as it were),<BR>
is maybe a bit bloody much. There are philosophy<BR>
degrees, and there is roleplaying. For me, at least, I<BR>
find "fun" does not involve confusing the two.<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
=====<BR>
KA Schuant<BR>
member: Chef's Guild International, Sporting Shooter's Assoc, Amnesty Int, Carlton Soccer Club<BR>
Melbourne<BR>
Australia<BR>
<BR>
"Duct tape is like the Force: it has a light side, a dark side, and it binds the universe together"<BR>
__________________________________________________<BR>
Do You Yahoo!?<BR>
Thousands of Stores.  Millions of Products.  All in one place.<BR>
Yahoo! Shopping: http://shopping.yahoo.com<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 2 Dec 1999 08:46:04 -0500<BR>
From: "Charles Prevatte" <prevattec@worldnet.att.net><BR>
Subject: Repulsar sounds.<BR>
<BR>
From: "Charles Prevatte" <prevattec@worldnet.att.net><BR>
<BR>
<BR>
> >Nevil,<BR>
> > (Rubbing his hands together and grinning like Boris Karloff's<BR>
> >"Grinch")<BR>
> ><BR>
> > "Sounds like we've got some company.  Finally something I can see<BR>
> >and shoot at."<BR>
> ><BR>
> > (He spits on the barrel of his blaster and rubs it on his leg for<BR>
> >good luck, blowing dust and ash from the<BR>
> > sights and safety which he makes sure is OFF.  He moves to the<BR>
> >nearest window and starts examining the<BR>
> > outside.  He will contact our boat captain and ask him what he sees.<BR>
> ><BR>
> >-----Original Message-----<BR>
> >From: Scott Spieker [mailto:scspieker@ncweb.com]<BR>
> >Sent: Wednesday, December 01, 1999 8:05 AM<BR>
> >To: GT-PBeM@onelist.com<BR>
> >Subject: [GT-PBeM] Screams<BR>
> ><BR>
> ><BR>
> >From: "Scott Spieker" <scspieker@ncweb.com><BR>
> ><BR>
> >[Dentil]<BR>
> >    "Hey, everyone quiet!"  Dentil forced in a hushed growl.<BR>
> The sound of<BR>
> >an approaching repulsor engine could be heard through the gale wind.  The<BR>
> >sound of the engines was more clear than any other sound that could be<BR>
> >heard.<BR>
> ><BR>
> >    A quick flash of light showed signs of lightning, but no thunder<BR>
> >followed it.<BR>
> ><BR>
> >    The sound of the engines grew much louder, as if it were<BR>
> right over the<BR>
> >building, then dwindled to nothing in a very short time.  If it is a<BR>
> >vehicle, it could have landed near the building...<BR>
> >of Far-Future Enterprises<BR>
<BR>
[LEE]<BR>
<BR>
(OOC)  What has LEE got on his sensor pack?  What is the origin of the<BR>
sound?  Get a vector on it if Lee can not get a signature on the vehicle.<BR>
Move the boat at right angles to the island and triangulate in on it.<BR>
<BR>
Charles<BR>
<BR>
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- ------------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
Traveller is a registered trade mark of Far-Future Enterprises<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 2 Dec 1999 05:42:47 -0800 (PST)<BR>
From: Kyle Schuant <kyle3054@yahoo.com><BR>
Subject: Re: early christian writings and roman rumors<BR>
<BR>
> Luther Martin <tml@ksarul.com> replied:<BR>
> > Then why do companies love to hire consultants (I<BR>
> was<BR>
> > one until about three weeks ago.)?<BR>
> <BR>
> This is a bit of a different situation.  One man can<BR>
> make a<BR>
> difference if the rest are willing to allow the<BR>
> difference to<BR>
> be made.  I saw a rerun of a Star Trek Voyager<BR>
> episode<BR>
> last night in which Capt. Janeway was allowed to<BR>
> judge<BR>
> the Q.  Both sides agreed to allow her to judge and<BR>
> agreed to be bound by her judgement.<BR>
> --<BR>
> Jason<BR>
<BR>
Yep, and both sides were unhappy with her decision, if<BR>
I remember quickly. Remember all the rpg text<BR>
admonitions to be "impartial"? Anyone on this list<BR>
ever _truly_ manage it? Be honest, now!:) Ever given a<BR>
crazy PC a break just cos s/he made you laugh? Ever<BR>
killed one off just cos no-one laughed?<BR>
<BR>
=====<BR>
KA Schuant<BR>
member: Chef's Guild International, Sporting Shooter's Assoc, Amnesty Int, Carlton Soccer Club<BR>
Melbourne<BR>
Australia<BR>
<BR>
"Duct tape is like the Force: it has a light side, a dark side, and it binds the universe together"<BR>
__________________________________________________<BR>
Do You Yahoo!?<BR>
Thousands of Stores.  Millions of Products.  All in one place.<BR>
Yahoo! Shopping: http://shopping.yahoo.com<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 2 Dec 1999 05:57:23 -0800 (PST)<BR>
From: Kyle Schuant <kyle3054@yahoo.com><BR>
Subject: Skill<BR>
<BR>
- --- Benyamene' ZeAbe' Akella <xrp@sierratel.com><BR>
wrote:<BR>
Benyamene wrote:<BR>
> As far as medical, I have long ago given up<BR>
> generalizing such a complex<BR>
> field into a single skill. Anatomy, diagnostics,<BR>
> surgery, pharmaceuticals,<BR>
> it's  a huge ball of interlocking disciplines.<BR>
<BR>
Of course. But the same goes for other disciplines. As<BR>
testament to this I offer the recent postings re:<BR>
music skills. Everybody who knows anything about skill<BR>
"x" will inform you that it should be x:y and x:z and<BR>
x:a and x:b and so on... I'm a chef, and I'm sure I<BR>
could cogently argue that cooking different cuisines<BR>
counts as several different skills... which is pretty<BR>
funny considering that many systems don't even list it<BR>
as a skill! (what an insult!)<BR>
<BR>
I just think you have to draw the line somewhere, else<BR>
you will have literally thousands of skills pretty<BR>
soon ("such as?" you cry, well, System Bash, anyone?<BR>
hehe) I prefer simplicity, myself. I've found that<BR>
breaking down a skill too much doesn't materially<BR>
enhance the game. (Which isn't to insult those who've<BR>
so well discussed bribery and music and so on, simply<BR>
to say that each gm finds their level)<BR>
<BR>
=====<BR>
KA Schuant<BR>
member: Chef's Guild International, Sporting Shooter's Assoc, Amnesty Int, Carlton Soccer Club<BR>
Melbourne<BR>
Australia<BR>
<BR>
"Duct tape is like the Force: it has a light side, a dark side, and it binds the universe together"<BR>
__________________________________________________<BR>
Do You Yahoo!?<BR>
Thousands of Stores.  Millions of Products.  All in one place.<BR>
Yahoo! Shopping: http://shopping.yahoo.com<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 2 Dec 1999 09:15:27 -0500<BR>
From: "Chris Seamans" <semo@pil.net><BR>
Subject: Re: Bifrost-class Solar Shuttle (GTL9)<BR>
<BR>
From: Leonard Erickson <shadow@krypton.rain.com><BR>
<BR>
> Ok, let me know when you've figured out how to stuff something into a<BR>
> box smaller than it is. :-)<BR>
<BR>
Clearly not impossible. At various times, I've gotten some computer parts<BR>
packaged in this fashion!<BR>
<BR>
Then again, I've *never* been able to fit things I've bought back in the box<BR>
correctly. ;)<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 02 Dec 1999 07:39:42 -0700<BR>
From: cos 90 <cos90@powersurfr.com><BR>
Subject: Re: early christian writings and roman rumors<BR>
<BR>
>It's amazing the difference that book has made in many<BR>
>people's lives.  From athiest to foremost apologist of his<BR>
>century, just because he took the trouble to see what all<BR>
>the shouting was about.<BR>
<BR>
I'm sure that if we did enough research we could find several<BR>
examples of people changing in the opposite direction. As for <BR>
me, I myself have read the Bible, "to see what all the shouting<BR>
was about". Guess what, I'm still an athiest.<BR>
<BR>
:)<BR>
<BR>
- -- g<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
     Glenn St-Germain  Edmonton, Alberta, Canada <BR>
cos90@powersurfr.com  http://plaza.powersurfr.com/glenn<BR>
        "There is no longer any normal to be"<BR>
                                 -- Gary Numan<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 2 Dec 1999 09:45:57 -0500<BR>
From: "Chris Seamans" <semo@pil.net><BR>
Subject: Re: early christian writings and roman rumors<BR>
<BR>
From: Jason T. Barnabas <cybernaut@netzero.net><BR>
<BR>
<BR>
> True, some of the best scholarship has come from those<BR>
> who were biased against the book, but not dogmatic in<BR>
> thier bias.  This is actually true for those scholars who<BR>
> were biased toward the book as well.  Dogmatism has<BR>
> no place in science (or IMHO, in religion).<BR>
<BR>
This'll be my last comment on the subject, as it is very far afield from<BR>
Traveller. I simply want to say here that not believing that the Bible is an<BR>
accurate historical document *does not* mean that one has a bias *against*<BR>
the text. Strauss, for example, was strongly biased toward the book, but had<BR>
little belief that it was accurate as a historical document. Bultmann was<BR>
similar. The allegorists of the 18th and 19th centuries believed in the<BR>
Bible as a history, but believed that those historical events were placed as<BR>
they were by God for the purpose of instructing man. Further, a belief in<BR>
the historicity of the Bible is not binary. There are many different shades<BR>
of such a belief, from those who believe that the Bible is a true and<BR>
accurate history from start to finish, to those who think that any<BR>
historical accuracy contained is sketchy, and not terribly important<BR>
compared to the "essential truths" that may or may not be found within.<BR>
<BR>
One thing that's important to keep in mind that the very notion of a history<BR>
in antiquity was quite different from what would be called a history today.<BR>
Moral lessons and rules for living were frequently encoded within a<BR>
framework of a history.<BR>
<BR>
PS: Personally, I think you're right on your interpretation of Theophilos.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 02 Dec 1999 09:49:02 -0500<BR>
From: Ethan Henry <egh@klg.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Different Technologies<BR>
<BR>
Richard Hough <corvus@telus.net> wrote:<BR>
><BR>
> I thought the K'kree discovered gravitics right after defeating those<BR>
> aliens, who already had gravitic technology. What a coincidence!<BR>
<BR>
Hm, I doubt it, as I don't see very many K'kree lifting off-planet<BR>
in standard Saturn-type rocket boosters. Without discovering gravitics,<BR>
the K'kree are pretty much planet bound. <BR>
<BR>
Every race is generally given some sort of explanation for why <BR>
they'd make the gigantic energy expenditure, as a race, to do<BR>
all that aerospace research and get off the planet. Hivers are<BR>
curious. The Vargr are desperate to prove how cool each of them <BR>
are individually. The Vilani are empire builders. The Zhos grew<BR>
up with the knowledge of the Droyne and a second Droyne base<BR>
in orbit right around them. The Aslan, well, heck, if you've<BR>
got free space travel, there's a lot of land out there to settle<BR>
(The Aslan desire to settle land is, in a wierd way, nearly sexual <BR>
thus making them almost downright horny for extraterrestrial<BR>
exploration). The Solomani/Terrans have to to make sure we don't<BR>
get smucked by the Vilani (it's purely plot).<BR>
<BR>
And the K'kree? They want to fucking kill. Kill kill kill.<BR>
<BR>
Scary proposition.<BR>
- --<BR>
Ethan Henry                                        egh@klg.com<BR>
Java Evangelist, KL Group                   http://www.klg.com<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 2 Dec 1999 08:52:01 -0600 (CST)<BR>
From: "Jason Kemp" <Jason.Kemp@tdh.state.tx.us><BR>
Subject: Stopping the world...<BR>
<BR>
Good morning, All,<BR>
<BR>
Yesterday, I encountered an unusual thought exercise that immediately <BR>
made me think of the various levels of expertise in the hard sciences <BR>
here on the TML.  That being so, I figured I'd share some of the <BR>
preliminary thoughts.<BR>
<BR>
What would happen if you could suddenly stop the world from spinning <BR>
on its axis?  Assume that all physical laws remain intact, beyond the <BR>
one exception that someone or something could stop the Earth, or a <BR>
planet of your choice, from spinning.<BR>
<BR>
First, the obvious answer that most people come up with is "Everybody <BR>
falls down."  Yes, and so do buildings, vegetation, certain terrain <BR>
types, etc.  Suddenly the world stops, but inertia keeps you going at <BR>
an incredible rate.  (My best friend quoted something around 900 <BR>
miles per second, but I don't have the figures to back it up.  <BR>
That's one hell of a skinned knee.)<BR>
<BR>
Contrary to some belief, people would not go flying off into space.<BR>
The rotational speed of the Earth, and I assume for most other<BR>
planets, generally does not exceed escape velocity for its gravity,<BR>
so when inertia kicks in, people go flying for a bit, then hit the<BR>
ground really hard and really fast.  (This point lead to a very<BR>
interesting discussion with a young lady who was sure that the<BR>
reason we have gravity was because the world was spinning. It took a<BR>
while to talk her out of that one, and I'm not sure we were actually<BR>
successful.)<BR>
<BR>
Inertia would also cause the oceans to swell heavily to the east<BR>
(for Earth,) and wash up onto the coasts on the east side of the<BR>
oceans in large waves.  Then, the water would slosh back, slamming<BR>
the western coasts with waves not quite as devastatingly high.  <BR>
Eventually, the oceans would settle back into their beds, but not <BR>
before many of the larger aquatic life had died from the turbulence.<BR>
<BR>
Creatures and/or technological devices in flight would be tossed, <BR>
tumbling, through the air in the direction of the previous rotation <BR>
of the planet as the atmosphere suddenly scoured the planet's <BR>
surface, continuing to move that direction due to inertia as well.  <BR>
Assuming that aerodynamic flight could not be reestablished once the <BR>
device starts flipping nose over tail, wing over wing, in a chaotic <BR>
tumble, most of these devices would probably crash.  I'm not sure how <BR>
well gravitic devices could recover from the disorientation of being <BR>
slammed by an atmosphere that was suddenly moving at the planet's <BR>
former rotation speed while the planet has stopped.<BR>
<BR>
Also, if one looks at the conservation of momentum, then as soon as <BR>
the world stops spinning, the momentum must be transferred somewhere. <BR>
 One of the effects of this would be the pushing of the planet <BR>
outside it's former plane of orbit about its primary/star.  For <BR>
Earth, that means that the world would start moving in a northerly <BR>
direction, out of the plane it used to orbit in.  Someone on the <BR>
south pole at the time the world's rotation was stopped would be <BR>
launched into the air, as the world started moving north out of the <BR>
plane of revolution at a high rate of speed, relatively.  Someone of <BR>
the north pole would be slammed to the ground at a relatively high <BR>
rate of speed, for much the same reason.  (This is according to my <BR>
friend.  I personally have doubts on this point, at least as far <BR>
as the person standing on either pole being so dramatically <BR>
affected by the shift in direction of planet movement.)<BR>
<BR>
Should anything survive the initial chaos, the world is now tidally <BR>
locked, with all the incumbent changes in weather patterns as the <BR>
differences in temperature that arise from being tidally locked <BR>
around a primary star.  (You know, the sunny side gets hot, the shady <BR>
side gets cold, and life sucks anywhere except at some band parallel <BR>
to the "twilight band," depending on the ambient temperatures at a <BR>
particular range from the "twilight band.")<BR>
<BR>
ObTrav:  Perhaps a weapon that could do this was used in the Final<BR>
War of the Ancients 300,000 years ago. It would seem to me that this<BR>
would quickly destroy almost all complex life within the biosphere<BR>
of the planet in question.  Could this explain why there are so many<BR>
tidally locked worlds, relatively speaking, in the OTU? <BR>
<BR>
My apologies if you do not find this an interesting diversion or<BR>
thought exercise, at least momentarily.  I now return you to your <BR>
regularly scheduled thread of choice, already in progress.<BR>
<BR>
Just imagine, all this for just 0.02Cr,<BR>
Jason<BR>
<BR>
=============================<BR>
Jason Kemp, ADS Programmer IV<BR>
(512)458-7111 ext. 3375<BR>
Internet Address:  jason.kemp@tdh.state.tx.us<BR>
<BR>
Most computer virus and email alerts are hoaxes.  For more info, check out:<BR>
http://urbanlegends.miningco.com/culture/beliefs/urbanlegends/library/blhoax.htm<BR>
==============================<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 02 Dec 1999 09:56:37 -0500<BR>
From: Ethan Henry <egh@klg.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Different technologies<BR>
<BR>
cos 90 <cos90@powersurfr.com> wrote:<BR>
><BR>
> The only problem I have with this is that, at least as far as GT is<BR>
> concerned, the Humans on Terra, who would someday become the Solomani,<BR>
> invented the jump drive on their own, without any help. The GT rulebook<BR>
> makes this point very clearly and emphatically. I don't know if any<BR>
> other canon Traveller source says anything about the subject, but the<BR>
> GT declaration is close enough to canon for me. :)<BR>
<BR>
GAH! Damn. I'll have to check my G:T book tonight to see what it says.<BR>
<BR>
However, the "fact" that the Terrans copied Jump wasn't exactly stated<BR>
outright anywhere else either. I just find it interesting that once<BR>
they made it to the Asteroid belt, the Terrans just happened to discover<BR>
jump. Note that at last one moon of Jupiter and/or Saturn as well as<BR>
Pluto as interdicted Navy bases and have been so under all governments<BR>
that have occupied Terra. Note that the Terran discovery of Jump 3<BR>
was also crucial in their defeat of the Vilani... maybe the Terrans<BR>
found somethinf the VIlani had missed.<BR>
<BR>
- --<BR>
Ethan Henry                                        egh@klg.com<BR>
Java Evangelist, KL Group                   http://www.klg.com<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 2 Dec 1999 10:01:34 -0500<BR>
From: "Chris Seamans" <semo@pil.net><BR>
Subject: Re: SEC: UNCLASSIFIED Government bad, anarchy good<BR>
<BR>
From: Kyle Schuant <kyle3054@yahoo.com><BR>
<BR>
<BR>
> No need for us to arise at dawn (your dawn or mine?<BR>
> hehe), when I said, "just a game," I didn't mean to<BR>
> diminish its obvious importance in our other wise<BR>
> bleak and aimless lives, merely that perhaps an<BR>
> in-depth psychosocio-economic-political analysis (a<BR>
> dialectic of the extremely unproleteriat, as it were),<BR>
> is maybe a bit bloody much. There are philosophy<BR>
> degrees, and there is roleplaying. For me, at least, I<BR>
> find "fun" does not involve confusing the two.<BR>
<BR>
Yeah, but for some people, that *is* fun. For others, reading such things<BR>
also has entertainment value. Hell, even if I think that Tim may have gotten<BR>
his interpretation wrong, he's right. Traveller is an artifact of a specific<BR>
time in history, and reflects certain influences. The various people who<BR>
have contributed to the Third Imperium background over the years have been<BR>
drawing from a similar traditions.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 2 Dec 1999 10:15:12 EST<BR>
From: JFZeigler@aol.com<BR>
Subject: Re: Stopping the world...<BR>
<BR>
In a message dated 12/2/99 9:53:00 AM Eastern Standard Time, <BR>
Jason.Kemp@tdh.state.tx.us writes:<BR>
<BR>
>  Yesterday, I encountered an unusual thought exercise that immediately <BR>
>  made me think of the various levels of expertise in the hard sciences <BR>
>  here on the TML.  That being so, I figured I'd share some of the <BR>
>  preliminary thoughts.<BR>
>  <BR>
>  What would happen if you could suddenly stop the world from spinning <BR>
>  on its axis?  Assume that all physical laws remain intact, beyond the <BR>
>  one exception that someone or something could stop the Earth, or a <BR>
>  planet of your choice, from spinning.<BR>
<BR>
One effect you've missed. . .You'd have to dissipate or oppose all of<BR>
the planet's rotational energy, and unless you've somehow repealed<BR>
the laws of thermodynamics a fair amount of that energy is going to<BR>
end up as heat.  IIRC that would be enough to melt a large portion of<BR>
the planet's rock.  The oceans wouldn't just slosh, they'd flash-boil.<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
>  Should anything survive the initial chaos, the world is now tidally <BR>
>  locked. . .<BR>
<BR>
Not quite.  Tidally locked worlds still rotate, they just do it in step<BR>
with their orbital motion.  Of course if you want to specify that the<BR>
world has been reduced to a tide-locked state from a state of<BR>
rotating every 24 hours or so, the effects would be almost the<BR>
same.<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
>  ObTrav:  Perhaps a weapon that could do this was used in the Final<BR>
>  War of the Ancients 300,000 years ago. It would seem to me that this<BR>
>  would quickly destroy almost all complex life within the biosphere<BR>
>  of the planet in question.  Could this explain why there are so many<BR>
>  tidally locked worlds, relatively speaking, in the OTU? <BR>
<BR>
I've just finished applying a rough _First In_ procedure to all 400 worlds<BR>
of the Solomani Rim.  An awful lot of those worlds are tide-locked, all<BR>
right, but that's because they're down in canon as maintaining Earthlike<BR>
conditions despite being in orbit around dim red dwarfs.  You don't<BR>
need Ancient weapons to tide-lock a world under those conditions.<BR>
Sitting too close to a star will do it in much less than a billion years.<BR>
<BR>
- ----------<BR>
Jon F. Zeigler: Mathematician, computer geek, amateur historian, freelance<BR>
writer, occasional scribbler of bad poetry<BR>
"For any statement, no matter how innocuous, there exists a nonempty<BR>
set of people who will take offense at it."<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 1 Dec 1999 18:19:53 -0500<BR>
From: Walter Smith <SmithW@HARTWICK.EDU><BR>
Subject: re: Bribery Skill<BR>
<BR>
Alex Ingraham wrote:<BR>
>>>>>>>><BR>
In a recent discussion the subject of Bribery came up. I don't use it as a <BR>
skill in MTU. How difficult is it to bribe someone anyway?!?  <BR>
>>>>>>>><BR>
Step One: Determine that a person is bribeable. Not everyone is, and<BR>
no one is under each and every situation. Quite a bit of background <BR>
knowledge, experience, and subtle feeling out of the situation is<BR>
required. Streetwise might help, if the target is lower class or a<BR>
regular target of the lower classes...but what if the target is an Imperial<BR>
Governor?<BR>
<BR>
Step Two: Determine what to bribe the individual with. Money?<BR>
How much money? Too much, and the person will get suspicious.<BR>
He'll think you've actually done something much more serious than<BR>
you're trying to bribe your way out of, and he might think it too <BR>
dangerous to let you get away with it. Too little, and he might be<BR>
insulted...perhaps even insulted enough to arrest you for attempted<BR>
bribery. And what if money isn't the right thing to bribe with?<BR>
Which would work better to bribe an Imperial Naval officer with,<BR>
a lump of cash or a promotion? John Christian Falkenberg once<BR>
"bribed" an opposing merc commander into giving him a ceasefire,<BR>
and instead of money offered him an opportunity to safely collect<BR>
up his wounded..."If I'd bribed him with money, he'd have tried to shoot<BR>
me...but offer him the lives of his men..." (Yes, I know this wouldn't<BR>
usually be handled with bribery skill, but I was using it as an example<BR>
of extremes.)<BR>
<BR>
Step Three, of course, is to actually "Make the donation to the <BR>
Police Officer's Widows and Orphans Fund". <BR>
<BR>
Alex again:<BR>
>>>>>>>>>>><BR>
<snip><BR>
I assume that anyone with Streetwise would be successful at<BR>
bribery. Any opinions out there?<BR>
>>>>>>>>>>><BR>
Not everyone you can bribe is a member of the criminal underground.<BR>
Granted, that's what we see most often, but just because most<BR>
military officers carry pistols doesn't mean that Leader skill can serve<BR>
as Handgun.<BR>
<BR>
Walt Smith<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 2 Dec 1999 15:32:39 -0000 <BR>
From: "Trevor, Peter" <Peter.Trevor@rb.cwplc.com><BR>
Subject: RE: LEO's<BR>
<BR>
David "Hyphen" Jaques-Watson wrote:<BR>
> Peter said:<BR>
> > IMTU I have different local police structures for each planet ...<BR>
> > with different rank titles.<BR>
><BR>
> Would you like to post them?<BR>
<BR>
<Cough!>  <Splutter!>   Ah,  well,  when  I  say  "IMTU  I  have"<BR>
something what I ment was that that was how I played it.  I don't<BR>
actually have police structures for all 11,000 worlds of  the  3I<BR>
detailed out.  I just <whisper>make it up as I go along.</whisper><BR>
<BR>
Regards PLST<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 2 Dec 1999 07:41:26 -0800<BR>
From: "Bruce Macintosh" <bruce.macintosh@worldnet.att.net><BR>
Subject: more about "deadfall ordinance"<BR>
<BR>
I would actually break orbital bombardment ordinance into a couple of<BR>
categories. Pure "deadfall" wouldn't have a thruster plate or any substantial<BR>
engine. It would be de-orbited and aimed by the carrying ship itself, who<BR>
would<BR>
maneuver to a course that intersects the target. The ordinance would have<BR>
small chemical thrusters for fine course corrections, or maybe just use<BR>
aerodynamic control, and minimal guidance; the goal would be to make the<BR>
ordinance incredibly cheap, so you can dump a lot of it.<BR>
<BR>
Anything more sophisticated will be expensive, so you might as well armour<BR>
it (so it can withstand hits by defence lasers on the ground), give it some<BR>
ECM, and as high an acceleration as you can cram. Missiles like that would<BR>
get launched from some standoff range to surpress enemy defences.<BR>
<BR>
Bruce<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 2 Dec 1999 10:45:22 -0500<BR>
From: "Chris Seamans" <semo@pil.net><BR>
Subject: Re: Bribery Skill<BR>
<BR>
From: Walter Smith <SmithW@HARTWICK.EDU><BR>
<BR>
<BR>
> Not everyone you can bribe is a member of the criminal underground.<BR>
> Granted, that's what we see most often, but just because most<BR>
> military officers carry pistols doesn't mean that Leader skill can serve<BR>
> as Handgun.<BR>
<BR>
That's not what Streetwise is, though. From the Traveller book:<BR>
<BR>
"Streetwise: The individual is acquainted with the ways of local subcultures<BR>
(which tend to be the same everywhere in human society), and thus is capable<BR>
of dealing with strangers without alienating them. This skill is not the<BR>
same as alien contact experience.<BR>
    "Close-knit subcultures (such as some portions of the lower classes,<BR>
trade groups, and the underworld) generally reject contact with strangers or<BR>
unknown elements. Streetwise expertise allows contact for the purchasing or<BR>
selling contraband or stolen goods, and other shady or borderline<BR>
activities."<BR>
<BR>
There's a referee example as well, but in the sake of brevity I'm leaving it<BR>
out. I do have certain problems with the description of the skill as<BR>
presented, it doesn't look like it deals solely with the *criminal*<BR>
underground, but subcultures in general.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 2 Dec 1999 07:53:14 -0800 (PST)<BR>
From: Terry Mixon <tlmixon@yahoo.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Dragon Magazine on CD<BR>
<BR>
- --- Luther Martin <tml@ksarul.com> wrote:<BR>
<BR>
> The CD set is available on amazon.com for something like $28.<BR>
 <BR>
Here is the address.<BR>
<BR>
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0786914483/o/qid=944149857/sr=8-1/103-6951302-8381418<BR>
<BR>
You will have to put each part into the address line yourself for it to<BR>
work.<BR>
<BR>
Terry<BR>
__________________________________________________<BR>
Do You Yahoo!?<BR>
Thousands of Stores.  Millions of Products.  All in one place.<BR>
Yahoo! Shopping: http://shopping.yahoo.com<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
End of Traveller-digest V1999 #1427<BR>
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